Any student can become a neurosurgeon


Leave the archive and display this page in the standard design: PJ Neurosurgery Freiburg / Tübingen / Heidelberg




Hi,

Are there (ex-) FY students here who are familiar with the PJ elective NCH at the university hospitals mentioned or who can report something from fellow students, etc.?

I am considering applying and would be happy to receive some information and experiences,
also by PM,

Thanks,
VG
harmink

: - Are there any other students who are interested in the NCH and who know these university hospitals?

Do you want to become a neurosurgeon? Then I would definitely go to Tübingen, the neurosurgery there has a fantastic reputation! In any case, it does very well on the résumé.

Otherwise you can take a look at pj-ranking.de, that should definitely help you decide which clinic has a good atmosphere and where you can learn something.


I did neurosurgery in Freiburg as an elective in my PJ: I thought it was awesome. I was basically allowed to do what I want. As a rule, I did not admit more than one or two patients per day and was then allowed to go to the operating room. Of course, I also introduced the patients to the meeting. In the operating room, it was usually the case that watching was the order of the day, but I was often able to assist with opening and closing, and at the end of the day a couple of complete operations. Students are also allowed to drill mini-drill holes for chronic subdural hematomas. :-) In the end I was allowed to go to the intensive care unit for two more weeks, where I examined my own patients every day, was allowed to do transcranial Doppler and so on. As far as invasive measures are concerned, I was unfortunately behind the assistants, they wanted to learn that too ;-)

So is Freiburg recommended?
May I ask why you didn't stay there? Didn't they have any vacancies or did you prefer another subject? Or are there other reasons why an application there would not be recommended?

Hm ... so at the end of my PJ the boss already told me that I could apply there. I think he would have taken me. After graduation, however, I decided on accident / ortho.

I think Freiburg is not such a bad address. But there are also a few disadvantages: there was a pronounced formation of cliques among the assistants. More than I've seen anywhere else. The boss can be very tyrannical at times, but he is also not resentful, he is simply moody and choleric. He demands a lot from the assistants. After the 24-hour duty, they actually still had to stay a little extra to do stuff on the ward. The operative training was quite OK, I think, it was based very closely on the operating room catalog. Research is welcomed, but that's clear, it's just a university clinic. Certainly not a job for someone who wants to push a quiet ball, but rather something for career types - but I think someone who wants to do NCH doesn't want to push a quiet ball anyway ;-)

Apparently the proportion of women there is also quite high; what the formation of cliques may explain; did you have the impression that the climate was rather negative as a result?
In the end, what did you like better about trauma surgery? Are you satisfied or do you regret your choice?

In the final year you can of course recommend yourself for an assistant doctor position and you also have the advantage of getting to know the department with its advantages and disadvantages for 4 months. You should also consider that.
Of the 3 named, Tübingen has the greatest reputation for neurosurgery.
Heidelberg and Freiburg are certainly also good clinics.

Of the 3 named, Tübingen has the greatest reputation for neurosurgery.


And what could be more important than the * rolleyes *

@wjsl: No, the women had nothing to do with it. :-( Men also bitch at each other and try to outdo each other in order to present a good picture in front of the boss.

At the end of my studies I thought about what I would probably miss more if I could never do it again: the bones or the brains :-)) So I decided for myself that I can't live without bones, but without brains beautiful. I've never regretted it. Not even now, when we have had neurosurgery at our clinic for nine months. My fingers itched at first, but now I'm convinced that I wouldn't be happy there. Ultimately, you can't really help that many people in neurosurgery. All the bleeding turns into vegetables and the glioblastomas die anyway after a year. That leaves the spine, and as an orthopedist you can do that too ;-)

I would not make it dependent on reputation, but go where I can learn and do the most. You have to rely on the experiences of other students.

As for "that looks good in the CV", I've learned that the FY facility doesn't matter. If you still want to impress bosses in neurosurgery with name-dropping, you might want to do a PJ at the Barrow in Phoenix.

Ultimately, you can't really help that many people in neurosurgery. All the bleeding turns into vegetables and the glioblastomas die anyway after a year. That leaves the spine, and as an orthopedist you can do that too ;-)

So this is a statement that only surgeons who are unfamiliar with the follow-up care of their patients can make. We have a lot in weaning and aftercare after ICBs and SABs and certainly there are bad and prognosis-free processes, but many get really good with appropriate rehab and it's just an attitude that I often see in our NChs: after 24 hours not awake yet = vegetables = moving somewhere that doesn't bother and you can continue to operate ... of course, that's just the way it is, but all the work that others do so that these patients have a decent outcome (and also with Hemi can be meaningfully part of life) and the complex care for relatives is completely bypassed, which is, if possible, treated disrespectfully from above. Not OK. Then it's better to keep your fingers out of your brains ...

LG Lee

Yes, neuroreha takes a long time. But still ... I thought it was perverse when one was happy during the intensive rounds that a patient was now bending instead of stretching on pain stimulus - and before his SAB he had a job, a family, a life. I'm just spoiled for success from hospital surgery. You can't get everything back to the way it used to be, but a lot.

I think palliative situations are found almost everywhere today, and I cannot imagine that there are no complex discussions with relatives or explanations. And a surgeon fulfills the first part of a long chain of therapies; everyone involved in the reconstruction is only fulfilling a part. So to say you should leave it the same I think that's a bit exaggerated.

I always found the neurosciences the most exciting; but in neurology the therapeutic possibilities seem to me to be even more limited. And just because there is still some catching up to do in a subject doesn't mean that it has to be frustrating right away. I don't think the issue is whether you are an assistant for a year shorter or longer. Still, I find it difficult to decide where to apply. You should have the opportunity to do research and receive the solidest possible education, and you should have a reasonably good atmosphere in the team. Finding the right place here will be a challenge, but in the end you will have to take what you get anyway. So call around, apply and hope ...

In some areas you can do less than in others.
And there are specialist areas where you don't have as much to do with relatives (e.g. because the patients are awake and oriented) and which ones, you have more work with relatives.

What you have to be clear about when choosing the position is that you can do research more than less in your free time, especially at the beginning. At least if you are employed as an assistant doctor. And the more research you do during normal working hours, the harder it is to get your numbers together for the specialist.
The matter of the fact that it doesn't matter whether you need a year longer or less for the specialist may not be decisive. But at some point it just sucks when you still have to collect your numbers and have fewer choices.

As for the team, the mood can change very quickly. You also have to look at it on site or at least have reliable sources. The egg-laying woolly milk sow as a job hardly exists (ok, there are also 6s in the lottery) - you will always have to cut corners somewhere.

I also did some things in between that are not counted towards the specialist doctor - but I knew that beforehand and I am slowly happy when I have my times and numbers and at least the specialist certificate. Apart from the fact that my next post is tied to the specialist.

What did you end up doing, or are you currently doing? And how did you come to the conclusion that the place and subject are the "right" ones?

I don't expect miracles either; Only in the final year did I notice quite clearly how much motivation depends on how you get on with your colleagues; there were stark differences within a few weeks. In surgery I was usually there for at least 12 hours and still liked it; Inside, I would have loved to go home by noon and always came on the last minute. In retrospect, I noticed that the surgeons, mostly men, were much more relaxed and open-minded, and I actually liked most of the team, the feedback was very good, while inside there was a real cat war (at least on the house) that in the end I could hardly bear anymore.

That may sound very generalized and clichéd, but at least at the clinic it was really so extreme, and maybe also distorted my image a bit.

I also realized that something was missing when there was no more research going on.

Except in trauma surgery (sometimes even there) you have a lot of frustrating processes in every subject today, pure palliative situations, but in the end it is also a success if someone only gains time; be it 20 or 2 years. I have also met some in visiting services who have grown from their illness, and for whom every additional day has been valuable. Sometimes it depends more on how than on how long.

I've already considered trauma surgery; I did my doctoral thesis there, and my second supervisor said in the oral exam that he could use his connections to find the position I wanted for me. That made me hesitate for a while, but somehow I don't have a good feeling about it, it just doesn't "pull" me there permanently.

I also don't think that everything is better with a specialist; Even they have to obey their senior physician a lot, the senior physician to the boss and the head of administration. So far, at least nobody seemed to me to be really free of decision. Most of it becomes relative over time. Too much responsibility too quickly is also not exclusively positive.

If you would like to do something and are genuinely interested in it, you can give it a try; if only because otherwise you would have been annoyed all your life.

So to say you should leave it the same, I think that's a bit exaggerated.


You apparently did not understand my intention ... I was interested in the fact that NOT all of the vegetables are made and therefore the NCh and aftercare are worthwhile ... even if not in all cases, but there are also surgical indications for this ... only I don't think it's good when the Chrirugen (and I don't mean lava, but in general) are only interested in the operating theater and the before / after does not matter ... but luckily there are many who do do differently and are not only fixated on surgery. Just had a very nice visit from the vascular surgery department today, looking at the patient again and talking to the relatives again ... and all by himself ...: - great

LG Lee

@wjsl: Will be a bit OT, but since you asked:
I am in my last year of training to become a general practitioner. Gradually I noticed during my studies that this is the subject that I enjoy the most. Anesthesia was one of the options - but I didn't have access to it. So now I'm doing the part that I enjoyed most about anesthesia - emergency medicine.

It was partly a coincidence with the location: At first I stayed close to where I was studying and liked the city. In addition, the house had a good professional reputation. Well- if I had known what the working conditions are like, I would have tried to get another job.
The place after that was a desired use - the place followed the use: It was only there.
After that I didn't want to move and since there were the right places nearby, I commuted a lot, but stayed in that area.
In autumn I go to my preferred job: More work, more psychological stress, significantly more travel times - but working there makes it incredibly satisfying (has been there for a while and only has to leave because of the lack of further training.)
In a few years I will see how I will work - my own practice is not on the wish list. It will probably be related to what I do now.

Why don't you go to Kiel wjsl?

They also have a good reputation (half of Northern Europe is dodging), operate on every patient / case (you can be divided about it) and are at the fore when it comes to pacemaker implantations.
Everyone walking around there is very ambitious and self-confident (I find it exhausting), but not completely unnatural. There are even some really smooth, cool exceptions ;-)

They are also looking for ...
At the time I declined with thanks because my heart doesn't open so much when people stare at you in awe at the words "neurosurgeon" or "tomorrow we will operate on your BRAIN, Ms. Müller-Marquardt" ...
You have to stand on it - many seem to need it. Otherwise the workload cannot be maintained ... :-)

[QUOTE = Leelaacoo; 1496242] Well, this is a statement that only surgeons who are not familiar with the follow-up treatment of their patients can make. We have a lot in weaning and aftercare after ICBs and SABs and certainly there are bad and prognosis-free processes, but many get really good with appropriate rehab and it's just an attitude that I often see in our NChs: after 24 hours not awake yet = vegetables = moving somewhere that doesn't bother and you can continue to operate ... of course, that's just the way it is, but all the backlog and the work that others do so that these patients have a decent outcome (and also with Hemi can be meaningfully part of life) and the complex care for relatives completely bypasses which is, if possible, treated disrespectfully from above. Not OK. Then it's better to keep your fingers out of your brains ...

@Lee:
100% approval!
I am happy every time when our "vegetables" leave the station waving on their own two legs after often months! It is always amazing what a human body is able to withstand ...
One of my current "favorite vegetables" will return to my old job in about 2 months after completing rehab - processes that our UCHers do not experience in this way. I also doubt they'd care ... there is a fracture. I need to fix it ...: - puke
Our NCH students, on the other hand, like to follow the patient's further path and can look forward to such successes as the small children :-)!

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